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| 02:27:23 | ivii | hi all |
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| 08:39:40 | jota | http:ar.geocities.com/fm_delrosario |
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| 11:25:38 | deny | helloo |
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| 18:07:31 | bz007 | hello,larskl ! |
| 18:07:55 | bz007 | how are you |
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| 18:08:34 | Remco | This is a channel for talking about web applications bz007. Try #lounge for general chat |
| 18:08:38 | bz007 | hello,how are you |
| 18:08:57 | Remco | Read what I just said please |
| 18:09:07 | pffYussupov | heh |
| 18:10:41 | bz007 | what`s new in the web? |
| 18:12:11 | bz007 | good buye |
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| 19:54:25 | gmoz | I dissed Google Gears a bit |
| 19:54:26 | gmoz | http://my.opera.com/zomg/blog/2007/06/02/whats-with-all-the-fuss-over-google-gears |
| 19:54:29 | gmoz | =) |
| 20:06:43 | ROBOd | gmoz: i don't agree with your article :) |
| 20:06:58 | * | Remco sits back to enjoy the show |
| 20:07:27 | ROBOd | Remco: indeed :) |
| 20:08:01 | gmoz | ROBOd: go ahead and comment it then ;) |
| 20:08:17 | ROBOd | gmoz: hehe |
| 20:08:20 | Remco | You can talk about it in here too |
| 20:08:25 | gmoz | only properly explained opinions kthx =) |
| 20:08:26 | ROBOd | Remco: lol |
| 20:08:59 | gmoz | I reserve the right to opinions such as "My opinion is right, yours is wrong" |
| 20:09:03 | gmoz | *cough* |
| 20:09:13 | gmoz | j/k |
| 20:09:26 | ROBOd | *cough* "properly explained opinions" *cough* |
| 20:09:41 | ROBOd | that's not in your article :D |
| 20:09:46 | gmoz | what? =) |
| 20:10:54 | ROBOd | i recommend watching the "market": Adobe Apollo, Microsoft Lightning, Google Gears, and the HTML 5 specification |
| 20:11:10 | aleksanteri | gee |
| 20:11:39 | ROBOd | offline web applications is the next logical step |
| 20:11:54 | Remco | Then they're not web applications anymore |
| 20:12:08 | ROBOd | Remco: precisely |
| 20:12:17 | ROBOd | the web is taking over the software ;) |
| 20:12:22 | Remco | You just sync them sometime |
| 20:13:02 | ROBOd | gmoz: "Google's pages say that you can store files in their LocalStorage class. Nothing new. You could've done that with data urls or such even before Gears." |
| 20:13:26 | ROBOd | elaborate on that. how can you really store data with JS, without Gears/Apollo/etc? |
| 20:13:39 | ROBOd | and no Opera Widgets stuff, pls :D |
| 20:13:49 | ROBOd | (something cross-platform, cross-browser) |
| 20:13:57 | Remco | Serialize it |
| 20:14:01 | gmoz | as cross platform/browser as Gears? :p |
| 20:14:10 | ROBOd | gmoz: yes |
| 20:14:15 | Remco | Or data uri |
| 20:14:17 | gmoz | with a data URL |
| 20:14:19 | gmoz | like I said in the article |
| 20:14:21 | ROBOd | Remco: serialize, then save to ...? |
| 20:14:31 | Remco | Data uri? :P |
| 20:14:32 | gmoz | you can just dump the data url to a variable in JS |
| 20:14:54 | ROBOd | ok. but what's the user supposed to do with the data url? |
| 20:15:10 | gmoz | What's the user supposed to do with a locally stored file? |
| 20:15:43 | Remco | If you want your mail local, use pop/imap |
| 20:15:54 | ROBOd | gmoz: i don't think you properly understood what's the use case for local storage provided by Gears, Apollo et al. |
| 20:16:02 | Remco | If you want your rss feeds local, use an rss reader |
| 20:16:15 | gmoz | ROBOd: well explain to me what I missed then =) |
| 20:16:20 | Remco | They're far more efficient at what they do |
| 20:16:41 | ROBOd | the whole point is allowing web applications on the client side to do what we can do on the server-side |
| 20:16:53 | ROBOd | store data, save variables, files, search databases and such |
| 20:17:13 | ROBOd | the data url is quite limited, compared to Google Gears LocalStorage, for example |
| 20:17:31 | Remco | http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/06/01/2050252.shtml |
| 20:17:34 | Remco | How about that? |
| 20:17:35 | gmoz | Maybe, but give me some reason to store files locally |
| 20:17:36 | ROBOd | the data url requires user interaction and it's by far inefficient for having application settings |
| 20:17:49 | gmoz | You could write a wrapper class for it |
| 20:17:54 | gmoz | ála LocalStorage :P |
| 20:17:56 | ROBOd | gmoz: what's the reason for erm ... OpenOffice to store files locally? |
| 20:18:09 | gmoz | Since when is OpenOffice a web application? |
| 20:18:42 | ROBOd | gmoz: not only OpenOffice-like software will be built on the web |
| 20:18:48 | ROBOd | that's just one example |
| 20:19:00 | gmoz | Yeah I've used Writely and whatever the spreadsheet one is called |
| 20:19:06 | gmoz | Can't say I like 'em much |
| 20:19:10 | ROBOd | look into the future. that's what they are doing. they are building the next platforms you will use |
| 20:19:24 | ROBOd | true, they are "humble" beginnings |
| 20:19:26 | gmoz | I don't want to use a Word processor written in JavaScript |
| 20:19:30 | ROBOd | they will be much better |
| 20:19:46 | gmoz | Even less a spreadsheet app |
| 20:19:47 | ROBOd | gmoz: they have changed their mind about JS, it's no longer a toy language |
| 20:20:09 | gmoz | and I know that just as well as they do |
| 20:20:10 | Remco | Then they better start supporting Opera because they will need the fast javascript engine |
| 20:20:18 | gmoz | but it's not a language to write heavy apps either |
| 20:20:28 | ROBOd | Gecko 2 is supposed to implement a virtual machine (search Tamarin), compiler for JS 2 |
| 20:20:34 | gmoz | even my widgets perform slowly |
| 20:21:06 | gmoz | If they can increase the performance of JS to something like, say, C# or VB6 |
| 20:21:26 | gmoz | then they might be on to something |
| 20:21:44 | ROBOd | the web is changing. Gears, Apollo, Lightning are all proposing this |
| 20:22:03 | gmoz | but JS itself is kind of crippled as a language and was released kind of hurriedly |
| 20:22:17 | gmoz | well, they might fix the problems with it in new revisions though |
| 20:22:31 | ROBOd | JS 2 is coming down the road :) |
| 20:22:47 | Remco | I'd rather keep most of my data local, unless I can encrypt it myself before putting it online |
| 20:22:48 | ROBOd | see ActionScript 3 - very similar with JS 2, already in Flash CS 3 |
| 20:23:15 | Remco | I don't need google to index every document I've ever written |
| 20:23:38 | ROBOd | Remco: it has already done that, hehe |
| 20:23:41 | ROBOd | :D |
| 20:23:43 | Remco | Nope :P |
| 20:24:14 | Remco | Your entire life will be behind a username and a password. They should implement security like banks do |
| 20:24:28 | ROBOd | nonetheless, interesting times lie ahead |
| 20:25:10 | Remco | Life is interesting :) |
| 20:26:17 | ROBOd | gmoz: as for the relational db in Gears. that's very useful |
| 20:28:03 | ROBOd | running async JS is not that "nice" with setInterval/setTimeout. they are not very good in the scenario of coding OpenOffice equivalents ;) |
| 20:28:20 | gmoz | Nor is the way they have implemented it in Gears |
| 20:28:32 | ROBOd | you need real threads, you need real async JS execution. |
| 20:28:52 | gmoz | Locks, mutexes... where art thou? |
| 20:28:54 | ROBOd | gmoz: i'm not saying Gears is "panaceum" :). it's just they are doing something interesting |
| 20:29:10 | ROBOd | gmoz: hehe, that too if they'll be needed |
| 20:29:22 | gmoz | that won't be very possible without altering the language itself |
| 20:30:10 | ROBOd | threads are being planned |
| 20:30:40 | ROBOd | the language has been altered, already, for JS 2 |
| 20:35:48 | ROBOd | gotta go sleep |
| 20:35:51 | ROBOd | good night to all |
| 20:35:55 | gmoz | night |
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| 20:38:30 | gmoz | Boring. |
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